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City:Capital District, NY US
HomePage or other cool site:http://www.swa-gaming.org
Membership19years 277days ago.
Last Login2years 144days ago.
Last Move5years 163days ago.
TXWard is currently Offline!Send a mail to TXWard


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: TXWard - 18years 272days ago.
Message text
HeadMMoid wrote:
SteveMartin wrote:
I brought this point up, because the proposed changes would benefit ONLY the German player and will not make the game more enjoyable or historically relevant.

Could you please point to "the German player"? It is my understanding that any player on this site can be a German player. So, correcting the fuel penalties which the author placed upon German aircraft would benefit all players.

If you look at any Blue Max game - active or finished - you will see players flying Allied planes and players flying German planes. The ones flying the German planes are the German players that you are looking for. They are also pretty much the only ones who will get the benefit of your fuel changes.

You should really try to better understand a game before trying to change its rules. I think most players in a game know which ones are the German players...or at least I hope they would.

HeadMMoid wrote:
Your attempt to impugn the motives of those who disagree with you is most assuredly not an acceptable method of polite discussion.

True, it is not nearly as acceptable as your labeling those who don't agree with your point of view as intolerant, appalling, unwilling, dumb, illogical, reactionary, and intellectually blinded. I suppose next you will point out that my sarcasm is not as acceptable as your labeling method.

Whether you want to be the pot or the kettle, you're still black so keep your rocks to yourself or move out of the glasshouse before throwing them. That, by the way, was not sarcasm but a semi-ridiculous string of cliches.

HeadMMoid wrote:
I also see that, in your opinion, adding historical accuracy to a historical game does not make it "historically relevant". What does?

Your constant twisting of statements made by others is a big reason why you fail to gain much ground for your fuel rules campaign. SteveMartin did not state that adding historical accuracy to a historical game does not make it historically relevant. Your quote of him shows that his statement was that the proposed changes would not be historically relevant. Not everyone agrees with your argument that your fuel changes are more historically accurate. You've made similar distortions by stating that those who disagree with you are unwilling to accept improvements to the game. What you've missed, or try to distort, is that many of those opponents to your proposed changes do not believe that the changes would be an improvement and many believe that the opposite is the case - the game would be harmed by such a change.

Consider a compromise which, by your arguments, would seem to be historically accurate in your eyes. Gliders would crash after, say 3 turns. The fuel capacities of the planes would not be changed, but multiplied for scale. Therefore, an Allied plane has 67*3=201 fuel boxes, the Axis plane has 37*3=111 fuel boxes. The planes must use some of this fuel to get to and from the engagement site. Obviously, this could vary based on whether it be a intercept or patrol, but for illustration we will use a location at midpoint between airfields, 15 turns each way at average fuel usage of 2/turn = 30 fuel boxes from each plane. That means at the start of the engagement, the Allied plane has 171 fuel boxes to the Axis plane's 81. However, in order to survive, the planes must disengage when their fuel gets down to 30 fuel boxes for the trip home. The effective combat fuel boxes for the engagement would then be 141 for the Allied plane and 51 for the Axis plane.

I suspect such a setup would be just as objectionable to you due to the even greater discrepancy between fuel levels in the engagement. The only way to level them is to pretty much have the engagement over the Axis airstrip. In reality, the amount of fuel spent on cruising to the engagement would have been much greater than the 15 turns I used, but that would lead to the thimble of German fuel you complain about. I think that is the point that SteveMartin has been making - if you take into account the cruising to/from the engagement, what is left for the engagement is what is reflected in the game. From your microcosm examples in your argument, leveling out the fuel may make sense, but from the overall picture, I don't think it holds enough water for such a change to the rules of the game.

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18years 277days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 275days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 275days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 272days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 273days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 271days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 270days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 269days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 269days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 269days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
18years 269days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 18years 269days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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