LOGIN
User Name
Password
Remember me


Register...Forgot password?
Main menu
Leagues
Gonzaga
Blue Max
Cartagena
Wooden Ships...
King Me!
VampiRing
Forum Message
Previous messagePost a replyNext message

City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership18years 102days ago.
Last Login15years 302days ago.
Last Move16years 95days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 17years 318days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
In my opinion also, I think that a lot of the drive to change the fuel rules comes from players who tend to favour playing the German side. I have seen this for so long in the thirty five years or so that I have been playing wargames. Everyone wants to play the German side, with the neat uniforms, the neat tanks, the neat planes, etc. None of them want to play the big picture though, the overwhelming numbers arrayed against them, the lack of supplies, the lack of air superiority or naval superiortity, etc. They all seemed to have the same opinion, that the German military machine was so brilliant and invincible that only an incompetent Hitler and his political staff prevented them from overrunning the world. This is their idea of expert thinking and I believe we are seeing a prime example of it here in this discussion.


I don't get this. Either it is just a not so subtle flame-bait or else I don't understand why you wrote anything like this. I don't see why you bring out the good old trump card of AH without ever arguing against my points or justifying your arguments. Firstly, this is not WWII but the great war, or WWI.

Secondly, I enjoy playing as the triple entente and as the triple alliance (aka the Germans) both, and anybody can tell you that I have, in general, no preference except that I don't like to fly the Bristol or the Halberstadt because I simply cannot get them correctly .

Thirdly, my arguments don't stem from crypto-apology or overawe of German achievements, but from my knowledge of aircraft design and flight mechanics: should you like so I could tutor you in a crash course of basic flight mechanics, as you don't need to know aircraft design to understand WWI air combat. If you want I can show you why patrol/flight endurance has nothing to do with combat endurance. The math is not that hard.

Fourthly, your point about number superiority can easily be addressed in scenario design, rather than in some abstract "fuel" boxes. By the way, you might want to check about the story of a countryman of yours who was jumped by 60 Fokkers (according to a British newspaper article), and managed to shoot down 4 (yes, he got a VC for that).

Fifthly, you conjectured that scarcity of supply, lack of naval superiority () and air superiority should have influenced the duration and the odds of an air combat. There is a logical fallacy. Fuel scarcity could maybe cut a patrol short and reduce the number of sorties but it does not necessarily cut a combat short.


gugliandalf wrote:
IMHO, it doesn't make any sense.

No more than changing any other plane stat.


Lastly, to counter gugliandalf's point about game stats, while we could argue forever that Wright and Hall used questionable characteristics (check http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/bluemax/designnotes.html ) to compute aircraft statistics, which is beyond my point, my claim is that "fuel" is not structural, but contingent.

Also: prop driven airplanes are not cars, where speed has a strong effect on mileage. In WWI most engines (the rotaries) where unthrottleable (my spell checker fails me now) and fuel consumption did not depend on speed.

I hope I made myself clear and that someone (gugliandalf, I hope that now my arguments look sensible to you) will actually bother to read this long post.

--
Calsir

Back to the messages list
Messages thread
Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

17years 322days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 320days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 319days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       17years 317days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         17years 317days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 318days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 316days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 316days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 317days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 317days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 316days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 315days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 314days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Next thread
Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

17years 313days Nick Message for ksnake
Previous thread
Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

17years 314days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
17years 314days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 17years 314days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
Page generated in: 29.6875 milliseconds.