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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership19years 57days ago.
Last Login16years 258days ago.
Last Move17years 50days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 18years 273days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
In my opinion also, I think that a lot of the drive to change the fuel rules comes from players who tend to favour playing the German side. I have seen this for so long in the thirty five years or so that I have been playing wargames. Everyone wants to play the German side, with the neat uniforms, the neat tanks, the neat planes, etc. None of them want to play the big picture though, the overwhelming numbers arrayed against them, the lack of supplies, the lack of air superiority or naval superiortity, etc. They all seemed to have the same opinion, that the German military machine was so brilliant and invincible that only an incompetent Hitler and his political staff prevented them from overrunning the world. This is their idea of expert thinking and I believe we are seeing a prime example of it here in this discussion.


I don't get this. Either it is just a not so subtle flame-bait or else I don't understand why you wrote anything like this. I don't see why you bring out the good old trump card of AH without ever arguing against my points or justifying your arguments. Firstly, this is not WWII but the great war, or WWI.

Secondly, I enjoy playing as the triple entente and as the triple alliance (aka the Germans) both, and anybody can tell you that I have, in general, no preference except that I don't like to fly the Bristol or the Halberstadt because I simply cannot get them correctly .

Thirdly, my arguments don't stem from crypto-apology or overawe of German achievements, but from my knowledge of aircraft design and flight mechanics: should you like so I could tutor you in a crash course of basic flight mechanics, as you don't need to know aircraft design to understand WWI air combat. If you want I can show you why patrol/flight endurance has nothing to do with combat endurance. The math is not that hard.

Fourthly, your point about number superiority can easily be addressed in scenario design, rather than in some abstract "fuel" boxes. By the way, you might want to check about the story of a countryman of yours who was jumped by 60 Fokkers (according to a British newspaper article), and managed to shoot down 4 (yes, he got a VC for that).

Fifthly, you conjectured that scarcity of supply, lack of naval superiority () and air superiority should have influenced the duration and the odds of an air combat. There is a logical fallacy. Fuel scarcity could maybe cut a patrol short and reduce the number of sorties but it does not necessarily cut a combat short.


gugliandalf wrote:
IMHO, it doesn't make any sense.

No more than changing any other plane stat.


Lastly, to counter gugliandalf's point about game stats, while we could argue forever that Wright and Hall used questionable characteristics (check http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/bluemax/designnotes.html ) to compute aircraft statistics, which is beyond my point, my claim is that "fuel" is not structural, but contingent.

Also: prop driven airplanes are not cars, where speed has a strong effect on mileage. In WWI most engines (the rotaries) where unthrottleable (my spell checker fails me now) and fuel consumption did not depend on speed.

I hope I made myself clear and that someone (gugliandalf, I hope that now my arguments look sensible to you) will actually bother to read this long post.

--
Calsir

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18years 277days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 277days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 277days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 277days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 276days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 275days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 275days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 272days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 276days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 276days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 273days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 274days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 275days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 272days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 272days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 273days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 272days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 271days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 271days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 270days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 269days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 269days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 269days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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 18years 269days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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