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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership18years 102days ago.
Last Login15years 302days ago.
Last Move16years 94days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 17years 321days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
Well Killer1, Yes

Allied aircraft pretty consistently had greater endurance than their German counterparts. Coupled with other factors, such as prevailing wind advantage, more economical cruising, shorter ranges to target and overall greater abundance of fuel supplies, meant that the German pilots often had to break off the combat before the Allied fliers simply to avoid being turned into armed gliders.

To put it in simple terms, the DR I could stay in the air for about an hour and a half, while the Snipe could stay up for three hours. That would equate to 74 fuel points for the Snipe to be true to historical accuracy.

If you want to give German aircraft the same fuel loads as Allied aircraft, then you are giving them an advantage that they NEVER had and will destroy the game as it was designed.


Steve, I beg to dissent. Flight endurance and combat endurance are not necessarily related to each other. This whole issue has already been discussed before: check http://www.youplay.it/play/forum_showmessage.asp?msgid=32649 for a post of mine regarding energy management and wwi dogfights.

The point is, engines were not powerful enough to maintain dogfight manoeuvring without trading altitude for speed, and there were no afterburning or emergency power technologies that could drain a fuel tank in a matter of minutes. According to Phil Hall, an air combat lasted about 2 to 3 minutes. If you consider the endurance of the dr.I, you can easily see that there is a difference of at least an order of magnitude between its flight endurance and a typical air combat duration. However, in BM, the dr.I starts always with an energy disadvantage (call it fuel, if you prefer, fuel is a form of energy storage). The same can be said of the D.VII and other German aircrafts.

If you don't believe what I have just written, you can check "Quest for Performance - The Evolution of Modern Aircraft"
at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-468/cover.htm Extrapolated values for the performance of a few examples are in the appendices. It is quite straightforward to derive the same conclusions of mine. Of course, the can not be considered authoritative because it relies on the accuracy of historical published data.

Moreover, what do you mean by "prevailing wind advantage"? I think that would be even, since if it is easier for me to reach a target having a tail wind it will be harder to get back home with a head wind. Or is it related to the wind blowing combatants around?

Lastly, I do not understand all the fuss raised about an experimentation proposed by Nick. Nobody is going to compel you or anyone else to join non default games. While I agree that Phil did a great job, this game is far from being perfect, and I firmly think that everything is improvable and nothing is to be considered definitive and untouchable. Of course, I also find this game extremely fun, all its shortcomings notwithstanding.

Hope I made my point clear. Sorry for the long post, again .

--
Calsir

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17years 322days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 322days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 322days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 322days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 321days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 320days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 319days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       17years 317days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         17years 317days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 321days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 321days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 318days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 319days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 320days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 317days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 316days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 316days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 318days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 317days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
17years 317days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 17years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  17years 316days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   17years 315days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    17years 314days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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17years 313days Nick Message for ksnake
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17years 314days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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