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City:North of San Fransisco US
Personal Data:Male, born: January 19 1962
HomePage or other cool site:http://www.kongregate.com
Membership22years 166days ago.
Last Login2years 3days ago.
Last Move10years 206days ago.
DBurkeG is currently Offline!Send a mail to DBurkeG


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Rules
Subject:Re: Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
Posted by: DBurkeG - 17years 344days ago.
Message text
HeadMMoid wrote:
TXWard wrote:

Unless you know what the pilot instructions were for the Fokker D.VII, shouldn't apples be compared to apples? The "effective flying time" for the S.E.5a was 1-1/2 hrs., that of the Fokker D.VII was 1 hr. This gives the S.E.5a a 150% advantage over the D.VII, which is even better than the 140% in the game.

I originally came here to learn how to play because I was getting into Canvas Eagles - a game based on Blue Max using miniatures and altitude rules. In CE, ammunition is tracked like fuel, but the fuel boxes are the same as in BM. I disagree that the fuel boxes as shown are a problem, but that's just me.

My wording was inconsistent in the use of "effective flying time". I should have been more clear in indicating that both aircraft (and most similar aircraft) were expected to spend about one hour in the combat zone, regardless of their total endurance. That, however, is no longer what is important.

The problem that is emerging more clearly to me now is that I have been trying to work within and suggest modifications to a fundamentally flawed system. The fuel rules are an arbitrary and historically inaccurate method for controlling game length. I was seeking a way, within the existing rules, to produce more historically consistent games; games without the inaccurate restrictions on many (typically German) aircraft due to their fuel values being based on their maximum flight endurance rather than the way actual combats occurred. Attempting to justify changes based on historical data rather than historical events was a mistake, and I should thank Calsir for putting his finger on the heart of the problem - "Effective flight time is not effective combat time. They have nothing to do with each other."

Unfortunately, without a major rewrite of the rules (which I would neither advocate nor expect), there is still only one way to bring the game somewhat more into line with its historical background, and that is to increase the amount of fuel on the low-fuel aircraft.

While you, and obviously others may enjoy the tactical problems presented by the fuel rules (and that is just fine), those rules simply do not begin to reflect the reality of the combat which the game is supposed to represent. Although Blue Max is only a very, very rough "simulation" (to use that word very loosely) of World War I aerial combat, I personally would prefer that it be no more inaccurate than necessary.


Sorry if I missed your comment on it.... Did you ever check out Phil Halls posts about Blue Max? I did bring the topic forward, and it should be within the first few pages of the forum.

You seem to have noticed what I was thinking of when I first read your post days ago, and that is that changing the fuel rules, or using ammo rules as others have suggested, or similar modifications, would change the game quite a bit. Full re-write or not, it would become something of a different game. Personnally, I have hoped for altitude, or campaigns that included increased pilot stats.


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Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

17years 348days Killer1 [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days SteveMartin Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 348days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  17years 347days redwom Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  17years 347days SteveMartin Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days warrax Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days gugliandalf Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 346days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Zif Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days imdog Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 340days Killer1 Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 340days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Wishgamer Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days warrax Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 348days Regis Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  17years 342days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Swartz Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days TnT Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 348days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 347days docmortand Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days rainbow Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days BlackSheep Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 347days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 347days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 347days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  17years 346days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   17years 346days Zif Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   17years 346days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   17years 346days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   17years 345days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
    17years 345days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
     17years 345days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
      17years 345days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
       17years 345days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
        17years 345days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days teramaze Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
          17years 344days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           17years 343days teramaze Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           17years 343days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            17years 343days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           17years 343days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            17years 342days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
             17years 342days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
          17years 344days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           17years 344days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            17years 344days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
             17years 344days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   17years 345days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
17years 345days Bombadil Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 345days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 17years 344days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
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