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Country:CA
Personal Data:Female, born: November 20 1963
HomePage or other cool site:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy9Sgmth_rc
Membership19years 164days ago.
Last Login11years 359days ago.
Last Move12years 9days ago.
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Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Rules
Subject:Re: SOGEKING
Posted by: Tornade - 18years 217days ago.
Message text
TXWard wrote:
Tornade wrote:
i just watched the movie recently on AMC...so i am pretty sure i got the quote right

No one ever won a war by dying for his country...
you win a war by making the other poor dumb son of a bitch die for HIS country
*General George Patton*

honour and heroism were outmoded concepts pretty much from the onset of gunpowder...some would say the longbow...to argue about it is to ignore the reality of war


Wow, this is about the most ironic thing I've read in a while. The same user crusading for not disrespecting soldiers does exactly that. The quote you use implies that one must survive in order to "win" a war. That is the biggest slap in the face to all of those who died defending their country. Tornade, why don't you go visit the fields of crosses in Normandy and tell all who visit that those buried there did not "win" the war because they died on the beaches.

Honor and heroism are not outmoded concepts at all. Believing that they are is what leads to crap like what happened at Abu Gharaid (sp?) as well as the dishonorable beheading of captives - soldiers and civilians alike. THERE IS ALWAYS HONOR! It may not win a war on its own, but to fight without it is defeating the purpose of most wars - defending one's country.

The original post was about a player leaving dishonorably from the game, in game terms. To take it off on some tangent rant about the "reality of war" is ignoring the reality of reality. The reality is that games are played for entertainment and enjoyment. The OP was merely complaining that their enjoyment of this game was being lessened by the actions of on of their opponents which, in GAME TERMS, was behaving dishonorably.


well lets just make a few points in response

first...dying for your country does not make you a loser...nor did i say such a thing...Patton's quote empahsized that war is NOT about honour...it is about destroying the enemy and his ability to make war...Patton was perhaps the last of the truly romantic soldiers...very wrapped up in honour and chivalry...but he was very committed to total war

second...i have been to the Normandy beach as well as a number of other Canadian battlefields in Europe...Vimy...the Scheldt...Ortona...i have seen plenty of graveyards...enough for a lifetime i think...i am very well aware of the sacrifices these men made...even so i doubt that many of them would share your ideas of valour and honour...to them valour and honour was doing what had to be done and surviving to the next day...not some romantic notions of single combat against a willing foe...that is the stuff of film and fiction...perhaps you might want to read the poem
"Dulce et decorum est..." by Wilfred Owen

third...i will stand by my assertion regarding honour and valour being outmoded concepts...human nature being what it is we will see individual acts of heroism and honour...but i would challenge you to provide an example of a war...or even a single battle that was fought on this principal...
did the US go into Iraq with the idea to challenge the Iraqi army to single combat...did it leave its overwhelming air power behind so that the Iraqis would have a fair chance ? of course not...it might have been the honourable thing to do but it would not have been the sensibile thing to do...
did the Allies land in the Pas de Calais...where the Nazis were expecting them and were most capable of defending the beach...of course not...they landed in Normandy where the Nazis were weakest...again...not quite the honourable thing to do...but certainly the smartest...i can go on and on...but i think the point is made

war is not fought for honour...it is fought for gain...the politicians are the ones who speak of honour and valour...something which is alien to most of them...they are the ones who speak the sweet lie... Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

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18years 220days pokerguy Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
18years 220days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
18years 220days litehoof Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
18years 220days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
 18years 220days blackstar0 Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
  18years 219days Templars Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
   18years 219days Tornade Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
    18years 219days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
    18years 219days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
     18years 219days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
      18years 218days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
       18years 218days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
       18years 218days Tornade Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
        18years 218days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
    18years 218days blackstar0 Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
    18years 218days Tornade Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
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      18years 217days Tornade Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
       18years 217days BlackSheep Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
       18years 217days blackstar0 Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
        18years 214days pokerguy Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
         18years 214days BlackSheep Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
    18years 218days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
     18years 218days rolive1 Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
     18years 218days saltylog Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
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       18years 211days Graywolf Re: [BM][RULES] SOGEKING
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