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City:Fort Wayne US
Personal Data:Male,
Membership19years 199days ago.
Last Login14years 187days ago.
Last Move16years 237days ago.
HeadMMoid is currently Offline!Send a mail to HeadMMoid


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Program code error
Subject:Re: why not "retire with honour" ?
Posted by: HeadMMoid - 19years 72days ago.
Message text
Ashtar wrote:
My friends, this is a boardgame , not a wargame, and a very succesfull boardgame to be fair. (Bombadil-?A boardgame, you mean like Monopoly or Chutes & Ladders? I usually describe it to the unknowing as "Chess with machine guns". I have to disagree there with your point.

It has been designed to roughly simulate two enemy patrols having a chance encounter in no men lands. Point. No missions for instance, for that you should at least modify fuel ratings. But it's very funny and it works very well. Bombadil-I totally agree that the game system works very well!

Moreover, in the original boardgame you will not find any trace of the point system used on this site, which has been adapted from some unofficial scoring system used for many players combat in some tornaments. Bombadil-Totally disagree! The scoring of 1 point/turn and 25 points /kill is taken directly from the original rules on Page seven under "Campaign Rules"/"Experience".

Therefore you should note that:

a) The scoring system is not well suited for 1vs.1 matches. To be honest Blue Max too was not designed for 1vs.1 which indeed are pretty boring.Bombadil-I would disagree about 1-on-1 games being 'boring'. I'll give you they are low scoring but in them one's ability to out maneuver an opponent is paramount to success. Often the couple of hits one inflicts determine the victor often result from you being clever or him screwing up.

b) The only reasonable index of your personal success (as in WW1) should be the kills you score and the general behavior of your squad. Count these, do not bother about losing or winning by points. Bombadil-I have no issue here. Change the original rules and I'll still play the new way.

c) The "retire with honour" concept has been introduced for tournament reasons and to remind people that according to the rules you should try to exit from your side and not from the opposite one. But I suspect the name is a bit unfortunate, since many people seems to have too strong feelings whenever the word "honour" comes into play . Bombadil-Agreed, "Honour" stirs the emotions. However, I think the intent of these parameters in the tournaments has been more to not have people running off and weakening their team for relatively bogus reasons

Have fun and see you in the sky


Well put ...

I would say that Blue Max was successful, not so much for what it did, but for what it didn't do. That is, at a time when you had a number of highly complex (and not very successful) air-war games on the market, Blue Max offered a quick and simple way to play games set in World War I (what we here call a "beer and pretzels" game). To do this, unfortunately, it had to throw any serious accuracy out the window. The extremely rough gradation of movement, the use of absolute performance characteristics (ex. altitude and fuel) to set tactical capabilities, and the distorted view of how the weapons work with regard to damage make it almost impossible to say exactly what the game really recreates. That said, of course, it is still a fun game.

The scoring system, as implemented here, is not well suited for its purpose (not just one-on-one contests). It favors two-seat aircraft, which shoot often during a game, and have two “people” firing. It also favors and even encourages forms of play which many people in this discussion (with whom I generally agree) call “dishonorable”.

I heartily agree that kills, not an arbitrary point system, should be the primary method for determining success in an engagement, however, when a point system exists, it, in and of itself, defines victory. Since the point system in this implementation of Blue Max is also used in the long term record keeping and statistics display, it also defines a player’s standing with regard to other players. When that happens, most people simply cannot disregard the scoring system, whether it be good or bad.

The “retire with honor” system is at best silly, and at worst a farce. Others have noted, and I agree, that the conditions which determine the “retire” or “retire with honor” results don’t make any sense. More importantly, at least to me, is that one can do equally “dishonorable” things and remain on the playing area. The issue shouldn’t be some nebulous concept such as “honor” or “dishonor”, it should be about doing what makes sense historically. Unfortunately (to return to the previous comment), the current point system does not encourage that.

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19years 81days SkunkGuru [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days SkunkGuru Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days flying_neko Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
 19years 81days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
  19years 81days flying_neko Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days SkunkGuru Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
 19years 78days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
  19years 78days sven3012 Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
   19years 78days pokerguy Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
    19years 77days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
     19years 77days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
      19years 77days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
       19years 77days pokerguy Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
        19years 77days Ashtar Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
         19years 77days warrax Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
         19years 77days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
          19years 72days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 81days wetty11 Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 77days Tornade Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
 19years 77days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
  19years 77days Tornade Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
   19years 77days darken Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
   19years 72days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 76days Nick Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
19years 76days pokerguy Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
18years 336days Nick Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
 18years 335days kduke Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
  18years 335days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
  18years 335days Wertzz Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
   18years 335days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
    18years 335days moonglum01 Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
     18years 335days Bombadil Re: [BM][BUG] why not "retire with honour" ?
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